Quoting a speaker in an essay, search the blog
For him and his associates it became virtually a symbol of their radicalism. Instead, it can be a means of finding fulfillment.
One system that sounded great in one room may actually sound not as good in another. Even as high as DH5 we still sometimes see deliberate dishonesty, as when someone picks out minor points of an argument and refutes those. Indeed, the disagreement hierarchy forms a kind of pyramid, in the sense that the higher you go the fewer instances you find.
When aimed squarely at the original argument, it can be convincing.